I was one of the early publicly detailed out case of Chase shutdown due to number of inquires and accounts. In order to spread awareness, I have extensively written about it over and over again. But now it looks like I’m pioneering this type of shutdown as my player #2 has also been shut.
First things first, you may want to read posts I wrote about my own shutdown. I have listed them in chronological order-
- Chase Credit Cards Closed Due to Too Many Accounts and Inquires
- Called Chase Executive Office to Reinstate Accounts Chase had Closed
- CFPB Against Chase for Shutdown Due to too Many Inquires and Accounts
Second, when I got shutdown, I did not transfer points to player 2, or any individual for that matter. I do not believe that this “shutdown due to number of inquires and accounts” is contiguous in a household but I will not completely rule this out…yet.
Third, player #2 banks primary with Chase and has had checking and saving accounts with them for over a decade. The bank account related to player #2 is just fine and so is mine. At this point, it is more or less confirmed that this type of shutdown does not lead to closure of checking/saving account.
Last but not least, player #2 is more or less managed by me and shares the same address as I. Sometimes you may catch me referring to player #2 (P2) as “I”.
Now that I got those out of the way, let’s get to the details…
What Triggered the Shutdown?
I had applied for IHG card because I wanted player #2 to get grandfathered into the old card. I suppose that gives you a time frame of the application but I’m not going to state the exact date.
The Shutdown
I applied for IHG card in behalf of player #2 and #3 (okay this is gonna get confusing in future post but whatever let’s wing it) and to my surprise rookie player #3 who has been in States for less than 6 months got IHG card….and that very moment I feared for Chase account of player #2….because for all intent and purpose player #2 should have been approved wayyyy sooner.
A few days later, I logged into P2’s Chase account and my fear became reality. Fast forward a few days later and a letter stating reasons for shutdown came through the mail.
Here are the reasons we closed your account:
- Number of credit cards accounts
- Too many requests for credit or/reviews of credit
Player 2 Has Been Shut
How is this Different Than Player 1 Shutdown?
Well, this one doesn’t say “too many accounts opened recently” 😉
What Happened to IHG?
Similar to my Marriott Business application, Chase declined IHG application due to “previous unsatisfactory relationship with this bank”.
Player 2 Details – x/6, x/12, x/24, etc
As I mentioned before P2 has been a Chase customer for over a decade but he has also been with BoA and Amex just as long.
Credit Score: high 700 – low 800
Average age of account: a little over 4 years
Open credit card: 14 of which 4 were Chase cards – Freedom, Hyatt, Ritz, and CIP.
Experian inquires (Chase pulls): 2/6, 9/12 10/24. Last inquiry was with Chase and it was roughly 3 months ago.
TU inquires (Chase Pulls this also!) – 3/6, 8/12, 11/24. Last app was roughly 20 days ago. Second last app, above mentioned Chase inquiry from roughly 3 months ago.
How does Player #2 Feel?
This more or less summaries it…
Me: Chase closed your account
P2: Really?
Me: Yes
P2: My bank account too?
Me: No
P2: All my Chase credit cards?
Me: Yes
[pause few seconds]
Me: Will you call?
P2: No
Me: I will cash out your points then?
P2: Okay
P2: Is Player 4 safe? How about others?
Me: Yes
P2: good, let them close mine hahaha
P2: Oh btw, don’t apply anymore…without asking me first
Me: <insert smiley face here>
Final Thoughts
I have read vast majority of Chase shutdown DP relating to high # of inquires and accounts. You could even say that I have been shutdown twice and the logical conclusion I can draw from all of it that there is no definite pattern to it. Some shutdown cases of those under 5/24 have not been reversed, same thing has happened to someone with 20+ Chase history, but someone with 40+/24 has been reversed. At the end of the day all that seems to matter is your individual profile and the profile of whoever profiles you.
Yes, you can do certain things to avoid it and some approach seem to yield better result at reinstatement than others, but ultimately there is no definite number like x/6, x/12, x/24 governing these shutdown or (perhaps) even trigger that leads to these shutdown.
What can you do to avoid these shutdowns? Maybe space out your apps better. One Chase app every 6 month sounds safer but that does not guarantee safety either.
What can you do to get better result with reinstatement of your account? I strongly believe in not calling the executive office right away. This also means you should not file a CFPB complain right away…well because EO office handles that. The reason for this is because
- you want to save EO as your last option because if they say no, nobody will help you
- I believe you will have better luck calling the number on the back of your card, preferably Ritz, CSR, or CSP, and asking to be transferred to a department that deals with these shutdown and reviews of accounts closed by Chase.
19 comments
Looking to close a Chase account in a couple months that I had for about a year. Currently 5/24 will be 4/24 in a month or so. By closing this card does that contribute to shutdowns?
most likely not but at this point anything is possible.
One key piece of info missing here (and I wouldn’t share it either) is income. But what may help shed some light on the situation for readers is total credit line on personal cards as a percentage of income, both with Chase and across all cards.
Regardless, my guess is the 8 or 9 new accounts in the last year was big factor.
Sorry not willing to share that info. All I’ll say is that I often reduced CL for P2 as well. The CL reduction wasn’t as crazy as mine (bunch of $500 cards) but it was reduced decent enough for CL/income ratio for not to be a problem.
A few other data points?
Any manufactured spend?
More than normal returns? Better yet, return history.
Cards cancelled shortly after getting bonus?
Cancelled when annual fee shows up?
Other than what has been stated above, there isn’t anything else going here.
I don’t understand how coy you are in the household income/total outstanding CL ratio and if it shifted a lot recently. Nobody needs real $, but is it around 3? 2? 1? 0.5? That doesn’t disclose your income level at all.
This seems to be driving a lot of the theories around recent shutdowns, as Chase seems to be modeling a “bust-out” algorithm. In fact, it may be more of a factor than X/6, X/12, X/24 at this point.
I haven’t read the blog regularly, so maybe you’ve provided part of the equation elsewhere, but if not, I appreciate your willingness to provide data, but I also think it’s worth pointing out for future folks providing input that this ratio may be key.
Wow. This really sucks. So, this was triggered by new application? (IHG card). Any other factors that will also trigger reviews? (Upgrades/Downgrades/Close Account/Just Calling in)
Yes, triggered by new app. Yesterday I read a shutdown DP after PC…so anything is possible lol
Thanks. Seems like anything can trigger the review. Normally after how many days you will see the shutdown after the trigger reviews or new app? Instantly? Same Day? Few days? 1 Months.. Can you elaborate on that.
1-2 weeks. Typically around 1 week time after your app processes.
I had the same issue with my P2 (someone I stay with). I had applied like crazy for southwest business / residential. both got approved in 2016 april. After that applied for chase sapphire preferred, denied “too many inquiries”. I was relentless and kept applying for chase freedom may 2016. again denied same reason. had around 35 inquiries in 2 years at that time. Finally applied in june 2016 for IHG, got approved for $12k limit, very happy!. When the card arrived went to activate, found out all three cards, southwest business/ southwest personal and chase IHG was closed! Got the same letter as P2 mentioned above. CAlled back and the lady said she could retry activating but then came up and said, because of too many new accounts being applied for and 36 inquiries, chase doesn’t like such customers. Gave up!
This was all the way back in 2016 or did you typo the year? I don’t recall reading DP on this type of shutdown 2 year ago. Anyway, did you ever apply for another card in last 2 years?
Nope, this was for my P2 , not me. I was just wanting that IHG card for the 80k Points, this was indeed in 2016. I have never applied for chase cards as it kept saying “bad relationship with chase” or something like that till 2017 jan. then I stopped applying for chase altogether for p2.
Thanks for the info Sam. It is interesting that “previous unsatisfactory relationship” stuck around like it does with other type of shutdowns.
Thats right “previous unsatisfactory relationship” , thats the reason that chase quoted after that shutdown. I am scared to open another account with chase. lest another investigation is triggered for my P2. P2 is happy without chase but the new IHG is very attractive.. Don’t know whether I should go ahead with P2 application for it..
sorry to hear about your crap man. i would be crippled without chase. however, your bolded comment about no logical pattern to the shutdowns is completely wrong. so u think chase is just winging it? using some random kindergarten algo to find customers within a pool of millions? no. theres a pattern. i understand you dont necessarily want to share your crap on the internet, but dont think chase is just randomly finding people to shut down. they found you first. then ur mate. now player 4-6 maybe at risk. TBD.
NinjaX, Obviously there is an algorithm that triggers a review and needless to say every algorithm has certain set of instructions but they’re not as simple as x/24, x/12 etc. This isn’t as simple as “deny everyone who violates 5/24”. That is what I mean. I hope that clears it up.
A huge reason for shutdown like this is due to Bustout risk. That is more or less a definite thing at this point.
[…] while ago I wrote on Chase Shutdown of Player #2 – Number of Inquiries and Request for Credit and you may recall that Player #2 was took the situation rather well. Player #2 did not want to […]